Journals of the Information Entrepreneur - Jacqueline stockwell

057 35 Years of Tech: Resilience and Security with Nikki Chapple

• Jacqueline Stockwell

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In this episode, Jacqueline Stockwell sits down with Nikki Chapple—Principal Cloud Architect, double Microsoft MVP, and award-winning speaker—to preview their highly anticipated panel at Experts Live London. 

With over 35 years of experience, Nikki shares her personal journey from a shy IT starter to a leading voice in data security and compliance. They dive deep into what it’s really like to be the only woman in a technical room, how the definition of "good governance" has evolved in the age of AI, and why inclusivity in tech is a responsibility that belongs to everyone—not just women. 

Whether you are looking to find your voice in high-stakes environments, curious about mitigating AI compliance risks, or wanting to support transferable skills in your organization, this episode is packed with practical wisdom and inspiration. 

Session Notes & Key Takeaways

  • More to Tech Than Coding: Tech isn't just about developing code; it relies heavily on collaboration, problem-solving, and juggling complex moving parts—skills many women naturally excel at. 
  • The Evolution of Governance: From the days of expensive mainframe storage to the modern "throw everything in but the kitchen sink" reality of Microsoft 365, regulations like GDPR and the EU AI Act are becoming critical guardrails. 
  • The Hidden AI Compliance Trap: AI tools can surface overexposed data instantly. Organizations must tackle "technical debt" by deleting redundant, obsolete, and trivial (ROT) data rather than just buying more SharePoint storage. 
  • Finding Your Voice: Nikki shares her strategy for navigating environments where women are the minority: become a deep specialist, be clear on your values, speak with confidence, and find your tribe. 
  • A Roadmap for Growth: True organizational change doesn't happen overnight; it requires alignment across people, processes, and technology. 

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SPEAKER_01

Hello and welcome to today's show. I'm Jacqueline Stockwell, CEO and founder at Leadership Through Data. I inspire and motivate information leaders across the world. Hello and welcome to today's show. I am joined with Nikki Chappell. Now Nikki is a principal cloud architecture and a double Microsoft MVP in security and Microsoft 365. She has spent over 35 years helping businesses stay safe and organised online. She is an award-winning speaker, an author, and co-host of All Things Microsoft 365 Compliance. And most importantly, Nikki and I are speaking together in June at Experts Live in London, and our session is called Women in Tech. Real Stories, Real Change. Nikki, it's absolutely a pleasure to have you on the show today. So, Nikki, we're both getting ready for Experts Live at Code Node. This event is famous for its technical sessions. How does it feel to step away from the technical architecture for a moment to lead a session as personal as women in tech?

SPEAKER_02

I think it's really important actually because behind all the tech are people. And you know, we work in in a hopefully working in a diverse world. So we need to make sure, you know, we've got the right representation of people in tech. And just unfortunately, we don't seem to have as many women uh in the tech industry as in uh other industries. So it's really just to explain, really, there's more to tech than tech.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, agree. Because sometimes we can lose our person behind the technology, can't we? And we can focus very much on the the technical side, but actually it's leading that people side and saying that we're here and we are delivering these things. So, why was it specifically about the panel that made you say, yes, this is a story that I need to tell London?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think because um throughout my career uh being in in the technical side, well I've had two roles really. I've been in the technical IT side, but I've been in the business side. And I started in tech, moved into more of a business role, and then moved back to tech. And I've kind of seen how um maybe teams work in kind of uh different um in environments, and it is much harder in the technical arena when you're um in a minority of the women. Sometimes, you know, I was in teams where I was the only uh woman, and sometimes it makes you feel like an outsider, and particularly younger in my career. It's kind of um I felt I had to be twice as good as anyone else uh to get on. And I think we don't want to have that perception of of scaring people away, and we want to just try and say, well, you know, what can we do to you know encourage more women in tech?

SPEAKER_01

And do you find that there's a balance in the Microsoft MVP space from women and that more women have MVPs?

SPEAKER_02

I think it depends on which discipline you're looking at. So definitely in the security space, and kind of by looking at more the data security side, I would find I think there's something like 31 or 32 purview MVPs, and only six of us are women. And I think in the the security space, again, you know, in in totality, the number of percentage of women would be even lower, I think. So I think it it's important to kind of have some role models out there to encourage the next generation to kind of say, yes, this is a career for me. I don't have to be a man to go into this space.

SPEAKER_01

And for anybody listening, how for those women that might want to go into that space, how what could advice could you give them to move on to into that space? Gosh, that's a hard one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02

Um yeah, I I think being in tech doesn't have to mean it's a serious technical role, you know, you're doing developing code, etc. A lot of what I'm doing is collaborating with people, pulling together disparate uh teams of people, seeking, you know, uh understanding their problems and problem solving. And I find a lot of women are very good at problem solving, you know, often they they have to juggle their outside lives and their their work as well. And those are transferable skills that work really well in technology.

SPEAKER_01

Fantastic. Thank you. So at Experts Live, everyone is looking for how-to. So in your 35 years of experience, have you seen the definition of good governance evolve from a tick box exercise to a digital transformation enabler? It's an interesting question as well.

SPEAKER_02

So I think there's been changes. Obviously, there's far more uh regulations now than there there was 35 years ago. So, you know, I think uh one of the first real big ones was kind of the the evolution of things like GDPR, and now we've got not only you know, things like ISO 2701, but we've got newer regulations, specifically uh AI is things like ISO 001 and the EU AI Act. And I think that regulation is going to get more and more um, and this is because the pace of change and the amount of data we're creating is exponentially rising. You know, when I started my career, computers were very, very expensive. So the data we stored, we had to be really careful about what we stored because it was so expensive. We're talking about, you know, large mainframe computers here. So people picked and choose what they wanted. And, you know, especially the analogy is um a record. How much music could you put on a record, an album? And there was only so many tracks you could physically put on that piece of vinyl. So people were very choosy about what they got, they were expensive. Now we can go on to things like Spotify, and we can get access to any of the music we want. And you know, it is that sort of analogy data and and IT storage capacity has become relatively cheap. So I think we throw everything in it, plus the kitchen sink as well. And particularly Microsoft 365, it's that ungoverned data. We don't really know what's in there, and now tools like AI can surface everything super quick. Um, so that's where kind of, oh my gosh, we've got this, you know, data security oversharing risk, kind of what controls we need to put in. So I'm a great believer in having governance tools. I don't see it as being a blocker. I think it can work in our uh favour to help us ensure our data stays safe and ensure good productivity.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, great.

SPEAKER_01

So as a dual MVP, like how long did it take you to become a dual MVP?

SPEAKER_02

First of all, uh to become an MVP, it's not based on what you do in your kind of day job. So it's all about your community activities. So it's kind of what you're giving back to the community, and that can be in different forms. So I started off by creating um a website where I was kind of sharing some tips and sharing tips on LinkedIn. So it started off with Microsoft Teams because that was the new thing at the time. So I was sharing information there and I was doing um uh a lot of presentations and uh things internally in the organization and for customers. And I thought, you know, let's go and share this online. And when lockdown came and there was a lot of online conferences, and we had didn't have very much to do. So that was where I kind of put the big focus as this is something to bide my time and everything. So initially just became, I think at that time it was uh a Teams MVP within the Office 365 space then. Um and then because more and more of there was kind of good governance looking at that enterprise architecture, you know, to keep your data safe, you've got to go into the tools of Microsoft Purview. So then I became that dual MVP in the security spaces where Purview sits, plus the Microsoft 365 space as well.

SPEAKER_01

Amazing, amazing. So there's a massive focus on AI at the conference this year. What is one compliance chap you see most experts fail to do in it right now?

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's managing a technical debt. So, you know, as I mentioned previously, we've got a lot of data in Microsoft 365. A lot of organizations don't have policies to delete their old data, delete the redundant, obsolete, and trivial data. So they kind of keep pushing it in SharePoint until SharePoint gets full, and then they buy some the more SharePoints. Previously, it was kind of security by obscurity. You know, you had to know where the data is. So now suddenly AI can see that data super quick. They don't, you know, if you've got access to the data, even if you didn't know you had access to the data, it will find it. So I think that's the the biggest thing is that data overexposure. Um that's why things like the tools like Purview are suddenly getting the recognition uh that they deserve.

SPEAKER_01

So Experts Live is in Code Node Node, and that's in the heart of London developer scene. So for the woman in the for the women in the room who are often the only female voice in a technical environment, what is the real story of how you found your voice in those high-stakes environments?

SPEAKER_02

I suppose I've never really been afraid to use my voice. Um that was I suppose not being my issue. It's whether my voice got equal listening time. I think that was the the the the um some of the the issues that if I said something, it maybe wasn't listened to, but if somebody else said it, maybe um it was taken a little bit more seriously. For me, it didn't feel like a level playing field, you know. I had to justify my position more and I think become more prepared than others to make sure I could answer kind of any questions. So, like my approach was to become a like a deep specialist, um and be clear on what my values were and kind of speak with confidence. And for me, that has developed as I've got older in my career. Believe it or not, I I was incredibly shy when I started off my career. And I think as you age, you get wiser, and I think that helps.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and you're um a multi-award winner, a double MVP, an author, uh a co-host podcast now. So that's sensational from kind of what you've just described to where you are now. So focusing more on our session, so there's four of us, there's five of us females on the panel, and we've got one moderator. Um, we're discussing our individual stories um and our experiences within our professions. So if we if you could mandate one change across the technical ecosystem today to improve inclusivity, what would be at the top of your list?

SPEAKER_02

I think we need to recognise that potentially if you're the only woman in the room, it can be a daunting experience. Um, we need to really create environments where people feel that they belong. I think that's what it is. You need to find your tribe, you know, in effect. You need to feel comfortable where you're working because you go there, you know, five days a week and everything. So I think if you can have that environment where you are encouraged and best can be brought out of you, and kind of people are there to help you succeed. I think then that's where the real change happens. You know, we encourage women to join, and then we kind of support them throughout their career.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think it's so important just kind of reflecting on what you've said is just have that one person in your life that helps you support and motivate you. So mine was a previous line manager that saw my confidence and drive and ambition and kind of really gave me that steer in the right direction. Did you have one of those that supported you? You've talked about the right support.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I've had I've had good support, and I've also been in situations where I haven't felt very comfortable and you know had to call out behaviour as well. So um, yeah, having someone, you know, there either in work, it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody, you know, your line manager, but having somebody who you can sound ideas out to and encourage you. And also sometimes suffering from like imposter syndrome, are you good enough and everything? You know, it's it's been able to speak with someone, and sometimes like that problem shared is a problem to half thing. I think that really helps.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, agreed. So, like a good coach or a mentor or somebody that you inspire to want to be, um, make sure that you have the support of them. So thank you. So you were a 2023 security and compliance evangelist. What is an evangelist? Tell me that first.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think that that's that's a posh word for saying, you know, you you share your ideas with the wider communities. So I have my website where I I blog on. I've also got a like a YouTube channel as well where sharing information and I share the content that I speak at an event. So it's kind of being consistently there, you know, trying to get organizations to improve their data security and governance posture.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. So you're phenomenal then, and you rock at those things. How do you sort of keep energized without it being burned out when you're pushing for change in the technical space and the culture of it?

SPEAKER_02

Um, so for me, keeping myself energized, I really enjoy what I'm doing. So I think that's that's really important. So where I'm doing and preparing some of these things, you know, it's outside of work hours. So for me, it's almost like a hobby as well as a day job. So I think you know, it's got to be something you like, you've got to be passionate about a passionate about it, because only then can you be energized. If you're doing something that you don't really like and it's a bit bit of a drudgery and everything, you know, that can kind of get you down. But like everyone, you have your good days and your bad days. I can be wake up in the morning at you know, seven o'clock and ping, I'm a hundred percent old days. Another day is you kind of get a bit of a cold or something, or it's gloomy or it's rainy outside, and you feel oh, you know, and you kind of your energy feels low. So um it's thinking of ways of well, you know, how can you remain energized but be pragmatic about it, you know, not all days are going to be the same.

SPEAKER_01

Agree that it's kind of getting yourself into a good mindset, isn't it? Yeah. One of the things that I've tried recently is cold showers. So like if I'm feeling really tired and really sort of lethargic, cold shower, wide awake, endorphine hits, and also like playing like a really motivational song to get you out of bed is always a good thing. So tell me more about your book. What is the title of your book?

SPEAKER_02

But it's not actually a a book, it's um I co-authored um part of the Microsoft 365 maturity model on governance, risk, and compliance. It's on the the the Microsoft uh web pages, and it's all about trying to understand where your current posture is, what where you are currently, and then giving you um ways to improve. How can we in improve ourselves? So, like a level 100 is something very basic, you know, it's very reactive, it would be out-of-the-box controls. Whereas level 500, that would be everything is being optimized, but it's not just being optimized, you've got that continual improvement, your um best practice along with all of the kind of uh regulations, um, you're always trying to improve and automate things. And the benefit of this is if somebody comes in and they'll say, Hey Nikki, I want to implement DLP policies or retention policies, well, you can't just do that, it's a journey. So it's like my analogy is like planning um a journey. I would go on to something like Google Maps. You have to put in where you where you are to start off with before you plan your journey. And then you choose, you know, how are you going to get there? Am I going to walk? Am I going to take public transport? Am I going to fly? Etc. And depending on that, you're going to get different uh journeys through to those end goals. But you can't just put the destination in without having that start place. So I think that really helps. Often organizations think maybe that they're doing these things. It's only when you kind of lift the lid off and you think, actually, there are, you know, these are the areas you can improve, and this is your kind of roadmap. And it's not just about the technology side of change, you know, it's about the people, the processes, and the technology as well. Because all three of them, you know, have to work together.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I love that. And I love the analogy about going your destinations because you need people in that, because you need to put something in. So I'm that sensational. And you said that's available on the Microsoft website for listeners to go to?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, if you look up the Microsoft 365 maturity model. So the governance, risk, and compliance is just one of the competencies there as well. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. So let's just take us back to our panel uh for Experts Live, which is on the 11th and the 12th of June. What is the one feeling or one taken away you want the audience to remember?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, one takeaway is well, I suppose there's two parts of it. One, this is not a panel just for women to attend. You know, this is everyone's responsibility to look at, you know, you know, so you have to go away thinking, this is my responsibility too. Uh often we hire skills from outside that maybe in overlook people internally, you know, understand the business, the culture, and and the ways of working. And, you know, it's can we invest in transferable skills to support internal moves into tech? You know, people that haven't necessarily gone to university and got juggarees in the subject, but a lot of the skills I think are are transferable. And I think supporting that, that's where kind of the real change happens.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, amazing. And I think it's such an important point as well, because I was mentored by a man who was sensationally amazing as well. So shout out to Richard Parsons. Yes. Um, is there anything else you want to leave with the listeners to take away from today's session?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, encourage people to come along to the event. So it's on the 12th of June, isn't it? Um, come along to the panel, kind of try, I think, yeah, just take one thing away and see, you know, have a look at your organization and see how, you know, we can all take part and make little changes where possible.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, great. Thank you so much for your time. How can listeners reach out to you if they want to know more, Nikki?

SPEAKER_02

Uh well, I've got my website, so that's uh NikkiCapel.com. I've also got a YouTube channel which I co-host with Ryan, John Murphy, and Microsoft. That's called All Things M through Compliance. Um, yeah, they're the best way to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for listening to the journals of the information entrepreneur with me, Jacqueline Stockwell. I hope you found this episode inspiring and helpful and have some takeaway tips that can be useful to you. If you liked this episode, please like, review, and share it with your friends. Your support helps us reach more information leaders to stay inspired and listen to great content. Want to test out your strengths and weaknesses and measure it against our Empower framework? Please complete the scorecard. It's a great way to improve and evaluate your skills. You can find the scorecard at the end of the description of this podcast. Stay tuned for a new podcast every Thursday and remember to be bold, be brave, and be beautiful.